Back in May, based on some insight from analysts and ex-FileNet/IBM employees, we posted our analysis around if IBM might consider selling FileNet. While we didn’t receive any comments within the blog post, the posting on Linked-In was pretty active. This post will present the relevant comments unedited (without some of the more biased promotion posts for other products) for readers thoughts.
Update 10/13/17 – Gartner removes IBM from “leader” quadrant for first time in 20+ years
Feri Clayton (Director, ECM Products – IBM)
Not true at all! IBM ECM products including FileNet platform have a very healthy growth and we are investing in their roadmap. Next major version of FileNet Content Manager and Content Foundation (5.5) planned for release in 4Q 2017, with more coming in 2018.
Trent Leonard (Technical Architect – BCBS North Carolina)
Let’s face it, the market has passed the traditional ECM products by. It takes far more time and money to develop a solution on FileNet than on most other more nimble and simple solutions. Plus, FileNet is expensive. An overly complex expensive system equals market decline.
Renato Duarte – ECM Solutions Knowledge Leader – Everis
If the IBM strategy continues (Director board) IBM will be split in two companies. But the board is changing…
Joseph Angarola – Technical Program Manager – ECM – Anthem
I would prefer to hear what Gartner or Forrester has to say about this.
Reply – Dave Giordano – TSG
Joseph – I blogged my thought on Gartner ECM review in a previous post – http://www.tsgrp.com/2016/11/21/gartner-ecm-2016-magic-quadrant-change-hype-and-rigged/ I commented that Gartner seems overly biased toward IBM – specifically Watson and Box relationship. Not sure it (Gartner analysis) is relevant anymore.
Barten Broeke – CEO – NovaDoc (IBM ECM Business Partner)
You took old news from EMC Documentum and did a find-and-replace?
Reply – Dave Giordano – TSG
I tried to do an analysis based on several analysts and ex-FileNet in regards to the similarities between FileNet at IBM and Documentum at EMC. Comparisons are very similar…..was not saying they would sell it (I mentioned in the post that inside sources said IBM said “not yet”). Wanted to do an analysis of why they might sell it.
Yannis Nakos – ECM Content Services Sales Leader – Belgium and Luxembourg – IBM
The lack of strong sources here is demonstrating a poor investigative approach. Starting by saying you’re not for spreading rumours…but “an ex-Filenet guy said that…”. Come on! IBM acquired Filenet 11 years ago. Someone who didn’t make it in the merger may have opinions. But these can’t be seriously taken as a foundation for such a post unless there’s an agenda behind. Filenet has been re-written about 2-3 years ago by IBM, who incorporated tons of new embedded features no one else has proposed. Every commercial organisation has a goal for reaching financial targets and hence is by nature open to options. “Not yet” be willing to sell is as close as the best answer you may get from any realistic business organisation. That’s what IBM was saying for the PC’s and SOHO systems until it became commodity and has been sold to Lenovo. However the latest evolution of Filenet, IBM Case Manager, is doing great and at very large Documentum and Sharepoint accounts. I don’t think IBM is any close to ready yet to join the ECM graveyard as many have done. Your post is not very well documented. Anyways, as Warhol was saying, anyone may have her/his 15min of glory…but to my humble opinion it’s a pity to achieve it that way.
Reply – Dave Giordano – TSG
Yannis – I clearly posted this as an opinion. I am very confident that finding documented sources on why a public company would sell off a business unit are non-existent and borderline illegal here in the US. After talking with one ex-FileNet employee that talked to a current employee as well as multiple analysts and other FileNet partners, I thought it warranted a post. Our posts are ment to start a conversation so thank you for contributing. I haven’t seen as you mentioned “Case Manager doing great” (can you share documentation?). With the Documentum sale, EMC had provided separate income statements for the division so it was easier to judge.
Reply – Yannis Nokas – IBM
Dear Dave….Thanks for sharing this “opinion”, and taking the time with Photoshop to even create a spontaneous logo appearing clearly as a statement and eye catcher for these allegations. I guess that your company being specialised in Alfresco and DOCUMENTUM (who’s future is somehow less secure than when it was the sole ECM offering of its owner) has nothing to do with that “opinion” being carefully expressed out loud with no obvious disclaimers. Let’s agree we disagree !:-)
Reply – Dave Giordano – TSG
Yannis – Agree with your point that Documentum is much less secure in the OpenText world than FileNet is with IBM. The article came about after talking to an ex-FileNet employee and multiple other sources. We posted a similar article about Documentum in 2015 that turned out to be true. Again, appreciate your passion and contribution to the conversation.
Reply – Yannis Nokas – IBM
Dave, the situations ain’t the same at all.
- IBM has a software portfolio broader by far compared to Documentum’s or EMC’s. The strategy isn’t about ECM, is much larger as a landscape in terms of analytics, AI and cloud solutions.
- In 2015 Documentum was already for sale for years.
When (if I remember well, in 2009 in Momentum Athens) Documentum’s management team announced that EMC Documentum’s sales people would act directly on the market on top accounts, it was signing the end of the channel’s/partners support and advocacy. As IBM ECM regional sales lead, most of my deals are sold FOR our partners to ensure customer’s support on the market.
The management of EMC were no longer injecting cash in Documentum since years:
- Organically it was very hard to develop and release new versions and functionality,
- the strategy wasn’t clear about mobility and many other trendy and commodity (to others) themes,
- sync and share was dead with the reselling of EMC’s in-house baby: Syncplicity in 2015…announcing the loss of the last innovation EMC had built in their ECM portfolio,
- the strategy wasn’t clear and the lack of innovation organically or through acquisition was building a pretty mad customer base.
I was selling and implementing Documentum from 1999 (EDMS98 and then 4i version) until 2013 when the market for Documentum was stretching day after day.
You can’t compare the 2 situations. Honestly.
- IBM has new releases fueled with innovations constantly
- Acquisitions are expending the ECM portfolio year over year
- Watson (IBM’s AI) is delivering cognitive processing in more and more ECM products/platforms of IBM every year as well.
Of course the huge strategic shift of IBM might leave some people angry…
Summary Thoughts
We appreciate the enthusiasm of the IBM folks defending their product. Will leave it to the readers to determine how similar Documentum embedded within EMC or OpenText is with FileNet at IBM but we stand by our analysis based on discussions with others that are no longer with IBM or independent analysts.
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